Speaker You’re listening to Allied Health Podcast, talking all things Allied Health with your hosts, Danielle Weedon, physiotherapist and Clare Jones, occupational therapist.

Danielle Weedon Today we’re joined by Lance Picioane, CEO and Founder of the not for profit organisation Love Me Love You. During his career as an AFL footballer, Lance was diagnosed with anxiety and depression and rather than seek help, he turned to partying and serious substance abuse with frightening consequences. Thankfully, by beinf truthful with himself, his family and his friends, Lance turned a corner and sought help. From this experience, Lance established Love Me Love You in 2013, with the aim of helping young adults take control of their mental wellbeing and to live happier, more fulfilling lives.

Clare Jones Lance, welcome to Allied Health Podcast. And more importantly, Happy World Mental Health Day.

Lance Picioane What a day. What an amazing day to be joined by two beautiful people. Thanks, Danielle, and Clare for having me.

Clare Jones Now for all you’ve experienced, Lance, from your own mental health challenges to founding Love Me, Love You. What does World Mental Health Day mean to you? What’s it about for you?

Lance Picioane I think it’s a really, really good question. And I think there’s a lot of substance to the day, like any other social initiative type of day that people put around these types of a way, awareness projects sort of thing. And World Mental Health Day for me, it’s a really interesting day if people use it the right way. You know, in terms of the messaging, it’s actually a substance to recognize across the world for mental health. And this is the fact that just opening conversations around that and making sure that people are understanding that, you know, we’re all going through this journey together, hopefully. And the more open we can be to these types of conversations that surround days like this, the better. Make sure that it’s not just on a day like this. And in fact, many times about these social initiatives around suicide prevention day, RUOK day, mental health day – when people are actually in the midst of their struggles, days like these can actually make them feel more alone. There’s different understandings of the concept of mental health. But I know from myself that these days around like they like RUOK day, they actually make me feel worse. And I say that in the nicest possible way. They’re supposed to help decrease the stigma associated to the concept of mental health, but it actually increases it because people are actually taking the piss out of the conversations. Okay. So, you go to a workplace and people are asking every 30 seconds, are you okay? Those sorts of things that come around it. So yeah, it’s really bringing it back to that everyday is a day for our mental health because that’s life, we’re all sort of a continuum. But just about sort of normalizing the conversations around it. So for me, on days like this, it’s just another day of recognition of the fact that the battles that I have been through, and the battles I still go through, and what am I trying to get out of my life and who am I trying to get out my life with. And you know, and bringing it back to what’s really important, creating a lot of perspective around what it’s about.

Clare Jones And do you think there’s importance in publicizing the resources, the services that are available on days like this, Lance, so that, you know, for people that are struggling at the moment and are alone, it’s an opportunity to say you’re not alone, this is where the help is?

Lance Picioane Yeah definitely but it’s really an everyday thing for us and that’s what we want to understand. It’s an everyday process. Not waiting for certain days like this to promote or share a positive message posted a message or connection or a way to get the service, where to get support. I think it’s really important to be able to create consistency in that process, rather than on days like this, people can get lost in the lost in the midst of all that communication. But I think it’s really important for us at Love Me Love You. We released the song today in collaboration with Matty Charles and Andrew Loadsman, A Call To The Brokenhearted. That’s a social initiative for us to actually spread another sort of message, create another connection into what to do. We recently had a luncheon to launch our Never Alone Campaign, through all our programs and everything that we do with the foundation. Every week is an opportunity to do something. So it’s, you know, try and create an easier way for people to navigate to their health system. And I think that’s what we need to be able to do. And that’s what you guys do, and encouraging in your lives and in the professional world, in your social world. So actually trying to help people in their journey. And I think that’s the biggest piece. You know, we at the foundation, at Love Me Love You, we try not to complicate a complex system. And mental health systems are really complex for a lot of people to understand how to navigate it. And when I say navigate it, it’s actually just self-identification. How am I feeling? What am I doing? How am I emotionally regulating? How much am I physically regulating? And how am I connecting that to my brain health. And then actually going, so now how do I have this conversation to someone, to have a conversation with me and then how do I actually get the support that I need? Because I know even the battles that I lived for many moons ago when I needed to get the help that I needed, I was very lucky that I had a support system around me that enabled me to get there. So through my AFL days, you know, they had a connection of networks that I had access to, but I had my trusted doctor that I knew I could turn to, who would actually help me navigate through the system. But a lot of people don’t have that. Okay. That’s why people don’t get the help that they need. It’s a big a barrier that they’re trying to face. So we’re trying to actually help navigate that system, help people navigate that system for them.

Danielle Weedon Clare’s going to ask about your journey next and your story, but before that, most of our listeners are allied health professionals. So have you got any key message, obviously personally and professionally, they will be very interested in Love Me Love You, but have you got any key messages you can get across to our Allied Health listeners?

Lance Picioane Yeah I think a big part is that, sometimes when you’re in the medical world, in your sort of professional world, you forget that you’re human. Right. I think it’s a big part of messaging around that. And we do a little bit of work in the medical world with our connections and our networks, and it’s helping people understand, okay, well, you’re not going to get it right all the time. You’re actually not in solution mode. You’re connecting the mental health conversation to the clients, but we’re actually not there to fix people because if you try and fix them, they’re actually going to come back more broken. So it’s actually providing the pathways, the journey, the conversation piece so that people can actually, you know, understand what is it that I’m delivering for myself for my rest of my week because they might be with a practitioner, for let’s say an hour a week. So that’s a long rest of the week that they’re going to implement all the things that are working through there. So I think it’s about providing the framework, and this is what we deliver. And this will help people understand, is that we’re not here to fix people either. Okay. What we’re here to do is actually supply a framework of what opportunities you need to be engaged with or do for yourself and how are you going to keep accountable to it. Okay. So the messaging around it is actually well, what’s the holistic plan around someone improving their health, whether it be through mental or physical. But what’s the relationship that actually comes back? Because I’m putting my all my eggs in one basket and trying to fix myself with just this. It won’t work. So creating a holistic plan around it. So if something is broken, what are the steps and we need to be putting in place together to actually work our way through that. And if it doesn’t work and it’s not the outcome that I was hoping for, ask why didn’t work? What do we need to tweak? What do we need to change? And I think this is coming back to the professional point of view. A lot of people going okay, keeping accountable to it and saying, okay, this didn’t work for me. And that’s the thing. This didn’t work for me. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. It just didn’t work for me. Okay. So, you know, you talk about this was self-care and preventive focus and stuff, but it’s making sure that people are understanding there’s opportunities to move forward and that just because you if something’s not working for you, doesn’t mean that something else won’t.

Clare Jones Now Lance your story. Can I say it’s a good story? It’s a very raw and honest story, isn’t it? Can you give us an overview.

Lance Picioane In a snapshot. You know, I like many other people, I got a story to tell. And I think that’s the difference between myself and a lot of people. I have a platform that is my story is publicly communicated. As a teenager growing up, I had a form of disconnection at school, about being at school. You know, who I was with at school. The relationships that I had at school were the ones of help sort of thing, or supportive or inclusive, and instead harmful to me as a person. You know, I was just totally disconnected from who I was as a person. And not being aware or understanding that at that age, it manifested into something so much more devastating as I was going along because I didn’t deal with the process at the time. Could things have been differently in my life? Who knows. That’s just how the life journey works. But luckily for me, I played footy, so that was my that was my escape. And that was that was a big part of my connection into living. You know, I was just sort of a superstar junior footballer, you know in schools, I was the state captains, winning Australian awards and all sorts of things right through school. Early draft picked and went to Adelaide, and played at Adelaide Crows for a couple of years. Then I was at Hawthorn for five years and then I was at North Melbourne for a year and through that time not dealing with the emotional distress of what my life was. Alcohol was a worst enemy of mine, but a best friend at the same time. You know, binge drinking to a point where it was extremely dangerous. And that was the escape that I had. And, you know, drugs then became a part of my world, in the late part of my AFL career. You know, between alcohol and drugs, that was a huge issue that I didn’t recognize. I knew it, but I didn’t recognize it. So I knew what it was, and I knew I shouldn’t have been doing it, but I didn’t feel I could do anything else to actually escape what was going on here. And then for the next six years of my life after AFL, so I finished AFL when I was 25, so that was 2005, a while ago now. But I was diagnosed as a high functioning drug addict for next six years of my life. So, I was a PT in the city. I was successful in my business doing that sort of thing that. But living with absolute demons inside my head and my heart. And I just didn’t know I had to deal with it. And that was the only way I knew how to deal with it. People go, this is the biggest issue that we have in this space still, is that people will always ask the question, what have you got to be depressed about? So, you know, I just had issues like many other people that I just didn’t deal with and it become something worse and more devastating than it should have been. Is it my fault? Is it anyone’s fault? No one’s fault. It’s just the way that life works and the journey that we’re on and the drug and alcohol world that I was involved with, you know, a lot of the people around me were involved in it as well, but it just didn’t affect them as much as it did me at that time. So, then, you know, I had my last suicide attempt in 2011, so I had multiple suicide attempts in the years leading up to that. And when I say suicide attempts in the leading up, it was all focused around the substance drug world. It wasn’t caring of actually living the next day. The thoughts of not being a part of this world was where I was at for a long time. No self-worth, no process, no identity. There was love and care towards me, but I just didn’t feel it. But then my last suicide attempt, was a time of conversation and to talk about hitting rock bottom to actually come up, that was my absolute rock bottom. In conversation with my wife and, you know, the beautiful person that she is, nonjudgmental, no expectations It’s understanding. We have a conversation, and then it’s what are you going to do with that information? And that’s what my wife said, well what do you want to do with it? And putting it back on the person and really feeling the, well, I actually need to get support. I want to do something about this, though. And I know you said I was very lucky that I had avenues around it, but I still needed to do it myself. And this is the thing, why people sort of lapse back into sort of mental health episodes or a diagnosis. It’s about actually being able to want to do it and actually putting yourself in that position to say, I’m going to do this, I’m going to accept this, I’m going to acknowledge this, I’m going to do this consistently. Is it going to work for me all the time? No. For example, I saw three different psychologists before I was connected into a psychiatrist, in a Melbourne clinic. So in the first time I went and saw a psychologist, I was stoned, so that wasn’t going to work. So but I had to keep working that avenue to move forward because I knew what I wanted to be at the end. And, you know, it was more not so much just the professional health service that I was getting, it was just that genuine love that my wife was able to give me and my mom and my sister and then extending that out again. And I thought, well, there’s more to my world than what I was doing. So I thought, well, why not start a charity that can help other people. And now here I am in ten years later. But I love what I do.

Danielle Weedon Did you have a clear vision when you started Love Me Love You, of what it was going to be?

Lance Picioane Yeah I had this vision that was going to change the world. And this is the difference where I was at the time, and for anyone that’s been involved in the recovery process, right. So, whether it be from a mental health diagnosis or drugs and alcohol, your brain just goes right I’m going to conquer everything. And at that time, I hadn’t really had been able to actually have a proper thought process for a long time, because I was so numb and my vision was, you know, we had some really hard-core programs that we were going to deliver, you know, some real deep sort of things are going to go on. But it wasn’t really accessible to the public. We were really focused on the early days through youth, and that was our thing, you know, and that’s now changed fairly, you know, actually the programs and everything we do now. So the vision of what we wanted to do at the start, is more like what we’re actually doing now. Okay. So and then it’s just sort of working out. I was very lucky that a lady, Mattie Clement, who’s the acting director of the AIS she’s been a big connection of mine in the journey of Love Me Love You and been a mentor of mine for a long time in this space. And you know, and personally, you know, I went to her, it’s quite funny. She said, ok what do you want to do? And I said I want courses on this, and this, and can you just put this all in one course? And I had a list, like 45 topics. I didn’t know how it all worked. And she goes, well, actually let’s just bring it back in. And just being able to learn off the legends of the game and in terms of community, in the allied health space, you know, one of our directors, is a neuro Psych called Daniela DeFazio, is an absolute legend for us. But it’s bringing it back to the impact that we can have with the community. And we use sports clubs as that powerful vehicle where we really engage with sports clubs across the board, community groups across the board, trying to make, you know, the training programs that we have accessible to them, you know, the education, the platforms that we have accessible to them. Because in the end, there’s a lot of organizations in the mental health sector now that are not accredited for anything. There’s no actual real evidence based programing. So there’s a lot of Instagram specialists now. So it’s about, how do we make ours accessible with accredited programing? And you know, our program is accredited through Suicide Prevention Australia. We one of 1 of 24 organizations in the country that are accredited for this type of programing into the suicide prevention space. Now we have an online platform that is a cross between social media and a health app. So we’re not trying to fix people, we’re not a blueprint to anything. We’re just trying to create more accessible information for people to be able to use. And then we provide support. That’s the biggest thing. A lot of organizations fail because they surround themselves and they go into the fact that they need information, that need education, they need training. But when it hits the fan, what are you going to do? So we have a support partner that we have and we are able to create that sort of holisitic value around a person. To connect the cause, connect the information, educate me through what needs to be educated on and then be able to support you no matter what stage you are on in the journey. And not waiting for crisis to come before you’re supported.

Danielle Weedon What are you seeing are the main mental health challenges amongst young people at the moment?

Lance Picioane Amongst young people, I think identity is a big one for young people, a comparative society that we live in. Especially through social media. Keeping up with the Joneses is a big one. So young people are dealing with expectations on them of being something that they aren’t. They’re modeling behaviors that are being put on from parents or coaches or anyone. That sort of adult connection that they have. They’re so worldly these days, youth. But don’t know how to use it. Right. The accessibility to information is actually creating a confused system for them. So it’s great to have information, but you know, a 15 year old these days will take in more information in a week than I did at the same age in a whole year. So, trying to filter that into the brain, that’s still not fully developed and we put that through. It’s not working for them. It’s actually creating a lot of confusion, will create anxiety. But then there’s a certain mindset actually as a generalized statement, there’s certain ones that are actually doing really well or they’re actually just really good at repeating information. So there’s certain people that can actually, you know, memorize an article and sound really intelligent or really informative in how they go about it. Or actually, do they believe it? Do they actually accept the information, acknowledge what’s going on, and actually utilize it for their own individual experience? Not just because that’s something they read. Even the process now, around social media, because it’s you know, it it’s taking over a lot of people’s lives. So you talk about this in terms of flicking through other people’s other people’s journeys and what they’re posting, whatever it is, you’re actually not engaging in beautiful sceneries or experiences, sort of thing and human connection to other people in actual real life human connection. People are losing the value of what that looks like. Our mental health is measured between the energy between multiple people. But with youth, they don’t need an in-person relationship, and then when they get it, they don’t actually know how to behave, or know how to communicate or how deal with confrontation, or deal with certain stressful situations because it’s not their generalized interaction.

Danielle Weedon I think as well the concept of technology and social media and the fact that youths attention span is taken away, I think that’s a really big thing as well because if you’ve got the space and the time to self-reflect and to consider the fact that you have an internal life, you know, everyone at the moment looks to external validation, external life, but really you’ve got to know that you have your own internal life that no one else can know. And if you can get that, I think that’s a really important thing for youth to  understand about themselves.

Lance Picioane Yeah it’s that balance. You know, you tell a youth or even an adult not to do something, they’re actually going to do it more. So it’s really about trying to find a balance and working it through. And there’s sharing your stories and sharing your own ways of going about it, and using those platforms for the good. It’s down to interpretation because every whoever is listening, whoever and how many people are listening to these, everyone’s very different interpretation of what we are actually communicating here. And um, but it’s finding what works for you. If this works for me and it makes me feel better holistically, my approach is then good. If it’s not working for me, what’s the change that I need to make? And then asking yourself that question, am I being the person I want to be, right now? Yeah. It’s a really, really hard question. I know. Actually, no, I’m not. Well, why not? Think, what is it that I’m doing? You know, for me, you know, and I look at that in terms of balance and how it all works. Physical exercise is a big part of my mental health strategy. It’s a big but it’s not the only part. But it’s a big part. I wake up at 4am in the morning and I go to go to the gym and I meditate and sort of do my breathing practices before I do my training. And I’ll physically train for an hour, an hour and a half, and I’ll go back and walk back into the door to my four year old and seven year old boys before they wake up, hopefully before they wake up by seven in the morning. A big part of my day. But is it the physical exercise component that I’m actually engaging with to find my balance, or is the fact that I’m just loving me time where I’m not having to communicate with anyone? Finding my time and finding my balance in how it all works and am I actually reading in the right way. Am I putting so much pressure on myself if I don’t train that day? And then there’s the eating, the healthy eating choices that I’m trying to surround that with, but then, you know, I’ll go and eat three rows of caramilk chocolate at night. And did I find that balance? How did that work? I think it’s helping people understand that it’s just your balance and what that is. Because we all want to find that inner peace in how we go about things, and I believe in true self-awareness is being at peace with yourself with that judgment. And I think that’s if we can get to that point, we’re all going to be better off. But it takes work. Life is not easy. Health is not easy if you complicate it, but we simplify our approach to it and then make sure that we can do that in terms of having an impact in our community through.

Clare Jones Lance, you touched on it previously talking about sporting clubs and connecting with sporting clubs. A particular sporting club is a huge part of our family’s life, our children play sport, but we’re very much part of the club. What value do you see in community sports clubs?

Lance Picioane They’re everything. They’re the hub. In terms of engagement. And, you know, not all clubs get it right. But a majority of clubs are a place of inclusiveness. No matter your ability, your talent or what your outcomes are on the weekend. So people engage in community clubs and use it as a powerful place of inclusion and belonging. You know, I believe in team sports or whatever sporting clubs are involved, whatever club it is. I believe in the power of it if it’s used in the right way. These days is a lot better than it was ten, 20 years ago. 20 years ago if you were the best in terms of the outcome of your sport, you were more included. But there’s so much involvement in terms of the community, how it impacts people’s lives, because that might be their only safe space. And I say this in the nicest way. There’s so much fitness, so many things going on in people’s lives now. So that’s the only place that they actually feel okay at. And it’s helping people understand that when that person comes here, we need to make sure that their experience is exactly the same as everybody else’s, and that’s a positive experience. So, when they leave here, they can take these relationships, they can take the tools, that type that experience back into their life at home, their school or at work, and feel the same love. But that takes that takes a lot of work. So, we talk about the fact, say a club that has 100 members. So, in terms of players, you know, staff, that sort of thing. And then there’s the parents and then there’s the brothers and sisters, and then there’s this. There’s probably four or 500 people that are actually involved with that club. So they all need to feel loved, which is a really hard thing to do to so many people. But if everyone plays their little role and we’re all going to be better off. And that’s what we believe. We have a big concentration and foundation at Love Me Love You around why we want to be more involved at sporting clubs and community groups is because we want to make the information and the support accessible to them. Okay. And we go to sports clubs because we feel safe at that sports club. You should never go into a sports club thinking fear, thinking, why am I here? Nobody likes me. I’m so disconnected. Okay. But still, there’s still a generational, or cultural shift that we need to make to make sure that it doesn’t matter who you are when you walk through that door that you are accepted, you are supported, you are included. And we’re all going to be okay on this journey together. No matter if you kicked one goal, or kick six goals or you don’t get a game. We’re all in this together. And I think that’s the power that we all need to be able to approach. Not everyone gets it right. It’s still people in this system that are actually bringing their outside world, and the pain and the traumas that are going on, they’re actually bringing that and actually disrupting cultures, positive cultures within community groups and sports clubs. So, we’re sort of trying to work through how we can put support systems around that.

Clare Jones Lance, can you run through some of the resources and offerings of Love Me, Love You?

Lance Picioane Yeah definitely. So our core programs are what we deliver. There’s our welfare warrior program. So this is the accredited program through Suicide Prevention Australia. It is literally a how to take a normal, everyday person, and work out how to identify, how to connect the conversation and how to escalate that conversation to a support system that that person might need. It’s not a professional, it’s not fixing anyone, but it works. It’s accessible information, so it’s a big program that we deliver. We have an online platform called the Never Alone Community that we deliver that through. So there’s short course that we deliver continuously through that. All the resources, you know, just from a single how to have a conversation, we talk about social media, we talk about all different processes. So that list that I talked about before, those 45 topics. We’re slowly getting our way through it. Our support partner that we work with, that is a big resource. In conjunction with us, they’re able to offer ten free counseling sessions, for every individual that accesses them. So for a person to go through that, you know, so they access the ten sessions that’s 1500 bucks that they would be saving. And if we need to actually escalate that further on to more sessions. And that’s perfectly fine. Well, if they need to go to a psychologist or whatever that process needs to be of escalation. But then we surround that support with the education. As I said, it’s not just the hours that you spend. It’s the rest of the week that you actually need to engage with, to make it work. So that’s what we do at the foundation. You know, through clubs, we have like a club membership. So we’re actually trying to create more communities within communities so that they’re all actually speaking with each other, not just sort of being so individualized in their approach. So we’re trying to create more communities, you know, welcome government conversations and corporate and CSR programing that we’re able to sort of engage more. We’re constantly looking out for champions to sort of, you know, in terms of facilitation, sorts of things. Because we need an army of people to deliver our vision. People of substance, and value and passion for the cause, which most people have. We aim to in the next two years to target 1000 sports clubs. And that’s just within Victoria. So, you know, that’s the sort of reach we’re going through. But we believe in the power sport and the vehicle that we can use in terms of our information and training.

Danielle Weedon Yeah. You’ve probably touched on it as well, but our allied health therapy listeners who may be treating clients with mental health challenges, how can they engage with Love Me Love You.

Lance Picioane Yeah yeah so there’s obviously contacting us through the website, but what we want to do and might be a cool way to do this with you and Clare, is having your own community within our Never Alone Community. And I think that’s the big one, right? So it is actually just having people in there. I said it’s not a social media site, it’s not a health snapshot, it’s a platform of connection. We’re actually being able to share information with each other, resources, courses that you might be able to do. You know, events have got streaming. But in with that there’s actually resources that a person can use if they need to have a conversation with somebody, if they need to escalate a conversation, passed that to where they need to get to.

Danielle Weedon And they can join that community via your website, is that right?

Lance Picioane Yeah. So we will work with you guys. So there’s the Never Alone that’s the Love Me Love You one, but we can actually in there put specific groups, so private groups all sorts of things that we can make all these things happen. So as I said, it’s just continually actually developing people through that because even when you do a course or when you do training, you’re actually only taking 5% at best Right. So it’s actually making it accessible again. So the biggest barrier that people have trying to have a conversation is the fear of not knowing what to say. Okay. So having the information accessible even at the palm of your hand to say, okay, well these are the tips that I need to engage with right before I have this conversation. It’s as simple as that. So we’ll set that up and then people can can join in, and see how we go.

Clare Jones Yeah, that’ll be fantastic Now lastly, you mentioned the Never Alone campaign and the song A Call to the Brokenhearted. I listened to it first thing this morning and it’s so powerful. Really moving to say that least. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Lance Picioane Yeah, I have no creative bones whatsoever. All right. But I know the power of what soul and expression can have on people and the impact it can have on people. And I went to the guys, Matt and Andrew, and asked if we could do a launch around the Never Alone campaign. And I gave them a list of words, and this is the thing that I would like out of it. And they came back to us with this song and, you know, like, I’m a pretty emotional guy as well, and this song just gave me chills. And I think a lot of people listening to it if you open yourself to listening to the words properly and feeling the music that comes with that. I think it’s extremely powerful. You know, a lot of people that the feedback that they’re getting, it takes you to the edge of your emotion but drives home just this strength, you know, and a lot of hope and a lot of courage. And we talk about the impact that music can have. Like I have four year old and seven year old boys and I played a lot at home, so it has to become their favorite song. But a seven year old has said to me that they have to do an experience at school where they have to perform a song and he wants to perform this song. So he’s in grade one, and he listens to the words and he actually tries to help and understand. And I think that’s what we need to be able to do, to share that message to people because as it says, we’ve all got a little bit of broken heart, in terms of where we’re at on our journey. But, you know, people helping people understand that we’re in this together, but you’ve got to open yourself to this support system. You can find it on Spotify and and Youtube. It’s about spreading that message of hope to a lot of people.

Clare Jones I found a lot of value in watching it on LinkedIn and having the lyrics come up as well. I mean, the lyrics are perfectly audible, but seeing them in front of them and reading them as the song plays, they’re really powerful lyrics.

Lance Picioane Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it helps my karaoke skills, that’s for sure. And most definitely so it’s used on all the platforms and on the YouTube. And as I say, find what those words mean to you because everyone listening to that stuff will have a different feeling. So yeah, just looking forward to it, as I said, the Never Alone campaign, is just making sure that we walk this journey together and I think this is where we’re going to be bringing it back to.

Danielle Weedon It’s great. Will definitely be sharing it with our networks. So thanks so much for joining us today, Lance, and for taking time out on World Mental Health Day. It’s great that you’ve shared your lived experience on battling mental health challenges and everything that’s been achieved through Love Me Love You. So to all of our listeners, whether it be personal or professional. Go to lovemeloveyou.org.au for more information.

Lance Picioane Appreciate it. Thank you, Clare and Danielle. It’s been a pleasure.

Clare Jones Thanks, Lance. We’ll be in touch.

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